[66]                             .home.                           [68]  

 

2/3/2006 9:12 AM

 

Challenge Problem à

 

 

 

On Founding the Taos Institute

 

Discussion with Paul Werbos and others

 

Judith Rosen’s comment on this same subject à [68]

 

Certainly the point was NOT that the discipline of physics (which does have various schools of thought within it) is the same as religious fundamentalisms, but that there are shared natures to any coherent way of thinking. 

 

Conceptual coherence, as Paul W has been in a position to know first hand in his extensive interactions with other scientists, may come from the physics of energy coherence as "used" by the brain system.  Certainly this notion of a physical basis for coherent belief systems is consistent with Karl Pribram's work - which both Paul W and I know in some detail. 

 

A fact that Penrose points out about physics in "Road To Reality" is that there can be excellent coherent theories about the nature of physics, each being wonderfully explanatory; but not consistent with each other.

 

So the recognition of a boundary to the explanatory capacity of the ultra coherent body of knowledge called mathematics, seems justified on several fronts.  The arguments made by Robert Rosen goes to this recognition, and does so in a way that is in the best traditions of formal thought and natural science. 

 

Rosen and Penrose are not the only ones who have stepped outside of the notion that a single theory of everything is possible.  The historically observable search for a single theory of everything appears to have certain unjustified assumptions that are considered to be essential to any allowable theory.  "Time" for example may not in reality be anything like the fairly simple notion that is considered to be essential to any allowable theory.  Of course, Paul W's deep work presses on the simple concept of time (forward flowing without structure), in ways that he might talk about. 

 

If we could return to the discussion started by Judith Rosen on relationalism, the "complex" entailments of relationship as expressed; it would be very nice.

 

 

The position that I am holding is that everyday human decision making is modeled more perfectly with "web service" technology and standards if the model of information is formative in the moment, and so reflects the coherence of the situation rather than being forced to align with a set of "universal standards".  The complex entailment of relationships might need to be measured in the moment, and this measurement will depend on structural knowledge and would be possible if common standards were available to express the components of data and process categories.  The position is stated in the Road map I developed for US Customs and elsewhere.... and leads to a stratification of the standards for data and process categories, as well as mechanisms that recognize novelty and procedures for human involvement in cases where the aggregation of categories does not lead to the intentions of the web service requestor. 

 

 

This is human centric (with formalism) as opposed to formalism centric. 

 

 

Organizations like W3C and OMG tend to want to impose a special and often authoritarian universal information model rather than a process for deriving a situational model of information (for example by using a stratified theory of ontology and using several separated theories).  Sorry this cannot be both clearer and simpler. 

 

The point that cannot be expressed in government working groups (like ONTAC) is that there is a specific business oriented bias that keeps W3C and related standards bodies in business.  This proposition is not allowed.  It is as if there are Emperors who have a specific illusion that cannot be discussed.   The justification for not allowing a specific alternative viewpoint is linked to something that acts like an religious fundamentalism.  This behavior is not consistent with most American's understanding of the government's nature or function. 

 

 

This specific alternative viewpoint suggests that formalism, whether first order logics or Hilbert type mathematics, cannot live in the present moment.  Formalism is built from abstraction, and abstraction occurs in the past.    In fact, the formation of natural categories, whether or not inducted into conceptual structure by humans or not, occurs in the present as a complex consequence of a complex past.  The complex phenomenon of categorical formation cannot be 'perfectly" modeled by Hilbert mathematics precisely due to the self entailment properties that Rosen very clearly defined.  This does not mean that Hilbert mathematics type models are not useful in talking about category formation.  It means, as Penrose specifically suggests, that there are other principles in additional to those we now understand that are necessary to understanding category formation (whether in the human mind or independent of the human mind).

 

 

The assumption that a specific set of abstract categories is in fact "completely and entirely universal" is where one set of issues arises.  In some settings this assumption does not lead to any mismatch between model and reality.  There is no problem here.   

 

In other settings this assumption is not only just a little incorrect, but entirely incorrect.  The second setting occurs often, we conjecture, in the expressions of living systems: genes, cells, persons, social systems. 

 

 

 

The status of formalism is distinct from the status of natural systems.  Judith Rosen's emphasis is that "mathematics" lives as a complex system embedded in the social fabric, but that the application of mathematics is almost always disembodied.  So that the nature of mathematics, starting with the nature of induction of the postulates and axioms of mathematics, is not fully realized in most application settings. 

 

The Rosen like arguments have in the past not been recognized by the intellectual authorities, it is true.  This non-recognition is a historical fact.  The existence of "intellectual authorities" is a historical fact.  These facts might change, but are held in place by the nexus of historical facts that govern the society. 

 

 

The validity of Rosen's core concepts related to complexity and anticipation are not objectively dismissed by the leading intellectual authority.  These core concepts are dismissed because they are not coherent with the belief system holding together the most powerful of the conceptual coherences accepted by the institutions of science, and the funding mechanisms.  They are indirectly set aside.  

 

Funding mechanisms is one way in which this indirect peer review occurs.  A certain type of mentality is selected so that the funding bias rewards short term utilitarian projects, and a specific set of "fundamentalisms".  Example: certain types of people with strong personal egos can find their way into position of peer review and funding decisions.  A specific individual with a huge ego was the specific reason why each of the Peter Kugler proposals (1992 - 1998 (I am guessing)) to NSF was rejected.  Each year, Peter carefully redeveloped the proposal to specifically address each of the points that peer review had made.  But over time, it became more than apparent that the peer review was just not an honest one.  In spite of this appearance, Peter took the peer review as constructive and very carefully addressed the issues. 

 

 

This couples science to short term measures of value (as determined by individuals within the funding system who look to advance narrowly defined professional / personal objectives).  It is just structural.  Government funding creates a specific bias, where other bias might have occurred.  The bias that ideally might control funding is long term investigations about the nature of reality...  and yes this bias plays a role on the mix.  But is pure science (what ever that might be) the controlling bias?

 

The National Project is predicated on the observed need to change certain attachments between computer science and business, and in this way change the bias so that science might find a way forward around, through or over the limitations that Godel, Penrose,  Rosen and others have revealed. 

 

http://www.bcngroup.org/area2/KSF/nationalProject.htm